I picked questions #1. Are pride and greed major
causes of conflict in the world? Assess and evaluate Lear’s demand for dividing
of the kingdom, and the motivations of the three sisters. What is it
about Lear’s character which makes him demand what he
does? What do you think of each sister’s reactions to their father’s
demand? Is any sister justified in how she reacts? Refer to
specific lines when giving evidence. How do you see these types of
situations playing out in the world either historically or today?
King Lear judges his daughters on quantity, not quality. What is Cordelia's problem anyway? She could be completely honest when she says that she is speaking the truth, but some might think that she has a stubborn streak. She might be like her father. Others might think that she is gambling, thinking that her honesty will give her a bigger inheritance. We have not seen enough of Cordelia's character to judge. Goneril and Regan were willing to play the king's little game. King Lear is not satisfied with her reply:
Lear: So young, and so untender?
Cordelia: So young, my lord, and true.
Neither of them will compromise. It is all or nothing. The King shows rage and violence. He banishes the Earl of Kent, and does not back down. This shows a great deal of his character. He is the King, and "kings" are used to getting what they want, and if they don't, then they need to show that they are still in command.
Goneril and Regan show their true sides when Cordelia bids farewell to them. She knows what they are like as she states to Goneril and Regan:
Time shall unfold what plaited cunning hides:
Who cover faults, at last shame them derides.Well may you prosper!
Today, many of our conflicts derive from pride and greed. The Holocaust, Suddam Hussein, or even drugs to enhance sports.
But back to Cordelia. The author Samuel Coleridge stated that there is a "mixture of pride and sullenness in her 'Nothing'" response. So what do you think?
I have chosen to answer Topic #1.
ReplyDeletePride and greed are the cause of many conflicts in the world today. Pride and greed can split apart marriages and families which causes even more conflicts. One example of pride being able to split apart a family is with one's inheritance. Family members want to receive as much as they can and may feel as though they deserve more than the other relatives. Beloved family members and close relatives fight over their loved one's belongings, cause the family to become divided.
In the play "King Lear" we can see examples of pride and greed causing conflict. The King, an arrogant and prideful father, requested that his daughter tell him to what extent they love him, and from there he will choose who deserves the most land. Goneril and Reagan produced speeches of flattery and lies with only their benefit in mind. Goneril couldn't even put her supposed love into words. She stated in Act 1, Scene 1 that it was “A love that makes . . . speech unable / Beyond all manner of so much I love you” (1.1.59).
Meanwhile, the king's most loyal daughter, Cordelia, was refused of her inherited portion as a result of the King misinterpreting her meaning. Cordelia was honest with the way she felt about her father and refused to flatter him. When the king asked what she could say to prove that she deserves more inheritance than her sister she answered by only saying, “Nothing, my lord”(1.1.86).
His pride blinded the king from seeing the truth that was in Cordelia's words. He preferred to be falsely praised and flattered in front of his men rather than be told the simple truth of Cordelia's response.
Greed is also present in Act 1 of this "King Lear". Greed comes into the play when the two older daughters, Goneril and Regan, claim to love their father just to get more land and inheritance, rather than to be honest with their feelings.
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DeleteIn response to Mrs. Berry:
DeleteI agree that pride and greed are a cause to many historical and modern conflicts. As for Cordelia, I think that Cordelia chose to answer differently than her sisters because she truly did love her father. She probably thought that answering honestly and not flattering her father would show how much she loves him. She felt as though her actions, rather then her words, would show how much she cares for her father. She had been loyal to her father throughout her whole life and thought that that was enough. She didn't need to sugar coat her response because she had already shown her love in another way.
I agree with Sydney,
DeletePride can blind people to seeing the truth. People think that they deserve more than others and fight over things such as inheritances simply because they want more. Cordelia was the one who truly could not put her love into words, not Goneril. Cordelia was true to her heart and refused to be pulled into the power of greed that her sisters were into.
I chose to answer question number 3.
ReplyDeleteThe nature of humanity is not basically evil, even though in King Lear three of the main characters are doing evil things for power and wealth there are several good natured characters. While people are not inherently evil, they do make evil choices and actions. Every person has the option to choose good or evil, it is what choice you make that determines your nature. Even someone who has chosen to do evil can change and do the right thing.
For example, Lear goes into a rage, disowns Cordelia, and divides her share of the kingdom between her two sisters. He wasn't being evil, he was simply angry that Cordelia didn't follow his rules. The Lord of France is impressed by Cordelia’s honesty and decides to make her his queen. He was good to her even though she now has no land or titles.
On the other hand, Edmund carefully arranges circumstances so that Gloucester will be certain that Edgar is trying to murder him. Edmund is not evil, he is greedy and angry at society. To get back at the world he plots the downfall of his half-brother.
People are not naturally evil, society, outward pressure, and events of their lives force people to make bad decisions that appear evil to others. Humans are naturally good, they just don't make the right decisions many times
I agree with Jennifer,
DeletePeople are born with a natural desire to do good. It is called a conscience. There are times in our lives where we get greedy, like Edmund, and try to sabotage other people to our advantage. But everyone always feels a little guilt. Even though you may brush it off at first, it grows into something bigger that you can either be sorry for and make it go away or you can add to it to cover up your mistakes. It may not seem like it at first, but evil never wins. Cordelia's two sisters may seem to be doing a fantastic job at their pursuit to destroy the king's command but they will never see true respect form the villagers of the kingdom.
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DeleteI agree with Jennifer, We are born to want to do good. You can't look at a baby and assume that he or she will grow up to be an evil being. I think that attitude and desire are the most important things. You can look at someone who has been hurt in some astronomical way (whether emotionally or physically) and they could be the most amazing person ever. On the other hand another person who has the same experience could be corrupt, always looking for a way to make others feel the same way. It's all how they look at the experience. If they choose to grow and move on from the experience then they will be able to benefit from it and use it in their life. If they choose to let it sit and wallow in the experience then they will be stuck in that place and will try to drag others down with them.
DeleteI chose question #1.
ReplyDeletePride and greed are major causes of conflict in this world. Why has there been so many wars and dispute among man? For land and wealth. It is human nature to be wealthy which is among signs of success. The world today has taken this into account and become to over look the true meaning of our purpose here on earth.
King Lear wants his daughters to show him the love they have for him to be rewarded of a share of his kingdom. He asks each of the three daughters to speak their words of love. "Great rivals in our youngest daughter's love, Long in our court have made their amorous sojourn, And here are to be answer'd. Tell me, my daughters" (Act 1 scene 1). He wants to know he will be looked after and truely cared for after stepping down from the thrown. This also shows that King Lear is self concsious about himself. The two oldest sisters play along with his demands because there hearts have been harded by greed and pride to win a part of the kingdom. Goneril first speaks and says "Sir, I love you more than words can wield the matter" (Act 1 scene 1).They fluff his feathers by saying words that sound sincere but in not true to actions. The last daughter to speak, Cordelia says "Nothing, my lord" (Act 1 scene 1). She loves and cares for him the most and believes actions should speak louder than words.
Today, the world has these types of situations happen all the time. For example in divorces, the spouses become greedy of who will be rewarded what and also with custody of children if they have any. It can be a very sticky process and can ruin and tear families apart. People may behave ridiculous to get what they want. King Lear is a prime example of how ridiculous people behave to get what they want in this world that has been turned into a worldly sucess competition.
I agree with your comment that Cordelia believed that her actions should speak louder than her sisters flattering words. I think that Cordelia really does love her father and she expected him to already know that, but his pride kept him from realizing that. I agree that pride can be a dangerous thing. It can blind people of what is truly important and what is really happening.
DeleteI reply with the entire passage you have just stated. The two daughters that tell him what he wanted to hear because they are greedy for the land that is offered. when the youngest daughter opposes it, his ego is hurt so disowns her. I like the example you have of divorce because in many divorces the spouses try to get the most out of the situation because their ego could possible be hurt because the other person doesn't want to be with them.
DeleteIn reply to Jennifer L:
ReplyDeleteI agree that everyone has their good side but also a bad side. It is the choices you make that shape you into which path you walk in this life. I also agree even tho we make bad decisions, we can always get onto the path of good. No one is perfect but we should try to make the right these right decisions when the time comes.
I chose to answer question #5.
ReplyDeleteKnowledge and truth are ideas that humans have been searching for since the beginning. The characters in King Lear are no exception to this quest for light. Many of the people in the play are on this journey to obtain knowledge so that they can make informed decisions. Two main ones are King Lear and Gloucester.
Lear is an old king, trying to figure out how to divide his kingdom upon his death. He decides to split it between his daughters, but as a final decision maker he asks them to tell him how much they love him, as seen in this quote:
“Which of you shall we say doth love us most
That we our largest bounty may extend?”
Lear is seeking to know which of his daughters most deserves his land. I don’t agree with his method, as he was clearly deceived by his eldest two daughters, but he is and old man desperately seeking to do what he sees as best for his kingdom by extending his knowledge of the future rulers of his land.
Gloucester is an adviser to the king, so obviously is very knowledgeable of politics, war, and his country. He is a very curious man,
“No? What needed, then, that terrible dispatch of it into your pocket? The quality of nothing hath not such need to hide itself. Let’s see.—Come, if it be nothing, I shall not need spectacles.”
,who has an obvious love of learning and knowledge. Unfortunately, though he is a good man, he is deceived and his love of knowledge is used for evil. This happens to us in our lives, as there are those who will take advantage of the good qualities of people, just as Edmund does to his father.
Truth and knowledge are very useful tools in developing into a good person, but one must be weary that just like any good thing, they can be turned around and used for bad.
I agree that knowledge and truth are goals for most of mankind, and have been for centuries. However, I think there comes a time in the latter part of our lives when the knowledge we have gained either turns into wisdom, or transforms into pride and foolishness. In the case of the king, it turned into pride. With Gloucester it became foolishness in the form of idle meddling and curiosity. Basically, I agree that the quest for knowledge is common among man, but there comes a time in old age when it is nigh impossible to learn more, which is when things are easily turned around, like you said. Lear and Gloucester both being prime examples of this theory.
DeleteI chose to answer #2.
ReplyDeleteA generation gap is something you cannot escape. You can be your mom's best friend but there will always be some disagreement. No matter where you live or how you were raised, there is always going to be something in the back of your mind calling your name. It's called independence. From when we were just little kids we have wanted to be all grown up and do things on our own. We can't help but try to do things that prove we have learned and that we can be treated life adults now. We think we know better than our parents so we go against their words, but later we see that they actually know that they are talking about. We just can't help but rebel.
It starts when we are young. Dad asks you a question, just a simple one, How much do you love me? Well...We do love our dads and we also know, that if we make it sound like we can't live without him, he might give us something cool and big. Just like Goneril and Regan. I'm sure they love their dad very much but we see that their response goes way out of proportion.
Goneril-"...dearer than eyesight, space, and liberty....no less than life, with grace, health, beauty, honor...." She uses words of deceit instead of what is in her heart. All she can think about is the money and land when Cordelia can only think of trust. Cordelia says-"What shall Cordelia speak? Love and be silent." All Cordelia can think of is not saying her love but showing it. Just like how trust really should be. You can say anything you want but if you don't do anything about it then what do those words even mean?
When we grow into teenagers we being to lose our natural ability to be kind. We start talking back and being plain cruel. We fail to do what can naturally as a child-helping everyone, loving, caring- and turn to something much "easier." We start to only think of ourselves and not try to lend a helping and. We think "what do I get out of doing good?" When really, we should be thinking as our parents might has taught us and that is to think of others. There are times in my life where all I can do is think about what something will benefit me. It is only when something doesn't work out and I am forced to be humbled. It is then I see the people I hurt and all the pain I have caused. There is still something in me that desires to be kind, there is something in everyone.
Chores, we all hate them so much. But they are our duty. Just as it was Goneril's duty to welcome her father into her home with open arms. At first she maybe have been totally fine with the idea, just as we are when we sit down with our families to make our chore list for the week, but then she was more focused on power instead of respect. She yells at her father as if she is not even grateful for anything that he has provided her. We may stomp our feet and argue with our parents at how "unfair" it is to stay home for ten minutes and do the dishes when you could be at Kyle's house having the time of your life. You forget everything that they have given you and get upset when they ask you for one little thing.
I see it as a struggle for "freedom." All we want to do is stay out late and hang out with friends, what movies and play on social media, anything that makes up happy right? But then we realize that our friends can't come over because our room is a mess and that is embarrassing, there is a test today and we stayed out until three last night, or you completely forgot about that paper that is due because you wanted to see if Edward would really leave Belle. You think you had freedom when all you really were doing was setting yourself up for failure.
The generation gap, in the end, is huge. It isn't our parents though, it is us. We become stubborn and refuse to listen when really, their advice is like gold.
I agree that a generation gap is impossible to escape, but I don't think is is necessarily a bad thing and don't think that we cause the gap to become difficult. Generation gaps are necessary. I think that they can bring new views. If we listen to our parents and our parents listen to us, then our relationship will be better. We naturally see things different. Neither are wrong. They are just different views. I think that a generation needs to be respected in a way. It is not a bad thing. It helps us understand each other and the world around us.
DeleteI agree that there's always going to be a generation gap witht he flow of time. However, I disagree that the sole reason of parent's being older or having imposed authority it means that they're advice is always "like gold." irresponsible people also get old, irresponsible people also have children, just because they are placed as a figure head doesn't always mean their advice is the most sound for a given situation, especially if the situation is one they cannot relate to due to the age difference. I enjoyed reading your opinion though!
DeleteI kind of wish this was Facebook so I could just "like" Parker's comment.
DeleteI chose to answer prompt #3
ReplyDeleteThe nature of humanity is not basically evil. Humans have the knowledge of right and wrong. We have the ability to feel. Every human at some point in their lives has felt compassion and shame. With these to feelings in mind, humanity can not be basically evil.
Goodness can be corrupted though. The duke of Burgundy was not evil in his choice to withdraw his offer of marriage. His goodness had just been corrupted. It was corrupted by greed. As modern readers of the play we may see the duke as evil because all he cared about was money, but no human is evil by nature.
King Lear's goodness was corrupted by pride. When the duke of Kent tried to reason with his King in saying "Whom I have ever hounour'd as my king, Loved as my father, as my master follow'd, As my great patron thought on in my prayers", even his words of love and wisdom could not convince the King to let go of his pride. His goodness had been corrupted.
Edmond's goodness has also been corrupted. He is seen by readers as an evil son and brother planning the destruction of both his father and brother. Most would say that his nature is evil. his nature is not evil. His goodness has been corrupted and his choices have been evil. His goodness has been corrupted by jealousy. He says "My mind as generous, and my shape as true". He sees himself just as equal to his brother, but because the law at that time does not see him as an equal, he becomes jealous. His goodness is worthless to him now. Being good has not gotten him what he wants so to get what he wants, he assumes that he must be dishonest and ruin his brother.
All of these men are good by nature. The'r goodness has been corrupted, but it is still there. In the world today we see the same thing. Greed, pride, and jealousy can corrupt any human. There are no exceptions. It is up to us to choose to live by our good nature.
I agree with Lauren. Each of us is born with a clear conscious, and with the ability to choose for our self. I agree that all may not be evil and that goodness can prevail. Humanity as a whole, though, I agree with the prompt - the nature of humanity is basically evil. Pride and greed are so predominate that humanity is tainted. Some may break out of the corruption for a moment, but the majority is tainted by the pride and the greed that help guide every choice.
DeleteI agree with Lauren in the sense that the nature of humanity can't be stripped down to a conclusion of evilness. I believe that we all eventually get "corrupted". I feel this corruption is unavoidable that everyone is corrupted at one point but I don't think that means we're corrupted forever. I believe you can get pulled out of that corruption.
DeleteI chose topic #1:
ReplyDeleteYes, I think that pride and greed are a major conflict in the world. Major leaders in the world don’t know how to compromise with allot of other leaders because of the pride they have in their country. Greedy People don’t know how to share wealth or how to stop gaining while other people go down. It causes allot of problems like poverty, hunger, and death all over the world. Lear decides to divide his kingdom because he doesn’t want conflict between his daughters after he has passed due to selfishness or greed. He divides it by having each daughter praise him and judges how good their praise may have been. He decides to have it done this way to show what an ego he has and that he takes a lot of pride in how much he is loved by his daughters.
“Which of you shall we say doth love us most? That we our largest bounty may extend” Lines 52-53
His two oldest daughters do as they are said and praise him like he wanted but his younger daughter doesn’t do what she is told and tells his that she doesn’t have to praise him because he already knows how much she loves him. I think the daughters did as they were told because they wanted to be the best and get the best land due to greed. I think the youngest daughter responded the way she did due to pride because she felt like she was being belittled by having to praise him when he already knew how much he was loved.
“Unhappy that I am, I cannot heave my heart into my mouth: I love your majesty according to my bond; nor more nor less.” Lines 93-95
I think they are all justified in their responses because the two older daughters didn’t want to be left with nothing and the youngest daughter felt like she didn’t need to tell him what he already knew just to build his ego. I actually do see allot of this play out in life today. With Children and younger adults, they try to brag about the things they have or gained in life to try to be higher in society and possibly be more popular in a group they may be affiliated with.
I agree with you. People are very greedy and do not know how to get along. Everyone tries to climb the social ladder to the top, and they do whatever it takes to get there. I also agree that Cordelia was probably acting prideful by not expressing to her father how much she loved him
DeleteI like and agree how you related this to leaders in today's world. I also agree that each daughter was justified in their responses to their fathers responses, each daughter's personality is different which contributed to the way they showed their love towards their father. Today's society definitely has a lot of greed and pride.
DeleteI chose topic 1:
ReplyDeletePride and greed are both almost impossible to escape in today’s world of competition. Throughout Act 1 Scene 1, King Lear gives off an air of being prideful, and sure of his decisions. He knows what he wants, and pride stands in the way of making knowledgeable decisions. This pride is shown when King Leer becomes angry with Kent and banishes him. “Fare thee well, King; sith thus thou wilt appear” (I.i line 179). King Leer further shows pride and greed when asking his daughters to profess their love for him. The first two daughters, Goneril and Regan, play King Lear’s game saying, “Sir, I love you more than [words] can weild the matter” (I.i line 54). On the other hand, Cordelia, the obvious favorite of King Lear, refuses to flatter the King and honestly replies, “I love your Majesty according to my bond, no more nor less” (I.i line 92-93).
Goneril and Regan show their greedy side by following King Leer’s command knowing and hoping they will receive a greater portion of the land. Though both girls were acting with greedy intents, they were honoring their father as well. Cordelia was prideful in her actions, and her pride led her to refusing the King’s need for pride and telling her father that she had nothing to say (I.i line 87). Cordelia’s pride for who she was, and her distaste for Goneril and Regan’s response got in the way of recognizing her father’s desires and emotions. Cordelia was justified in her actions by using her right to her opinion.
Incidents like King Leer begging for affection and banishing a daughter happen every day. Girls beg for affection in the clothes they wear, or the way they do their hair. Adult’s pride shows through with the cars, homes, and ways they spend their money. Families constantly are torn apart because of fights for money, property, and other worldly goods.
I love the points you make about everybody begging for attention then and now. I didn't consider that Cordelia didn't respond to his wishes of flattery because of her pride, I only expected it was because she was caught off guard by his question.
DeleteHey Class,
ReplyDeleteYou are doing a great job! Also, just a hint for those who have not posted. You might want to type your answer in a google doc or word doc, save, and then copy and paste. Sometimes you lose your post, as already one student has. Also, someone be brave and post another question.
Carry on......
I chose to answer #4
ReplyDeleteI believe that humans do have control over their actions but that those actions are already known by God. Meaning, humans choose the action but God knows what they're going to choose already. In "King Lear", humans are made to be no better than animals. I don't agree with this personally because humans have souls and animals don't, therefore, a human life is more valuable than an animals.
The characters believe in fate and not a god which takes away from human individuality. Some lines that show this thinking are:
Gloucester: These late eclipses in the sun and moon portend no good to
us.
(ln. 429)
Cordelia: Unhappy that I am, I cannot heave
My heart into my mouth. I love your Majesty
According to my bond; no more nor less.
Lear: How, how, Cordelia? Mend your speech a little,
Lest it may mar your fortunes.
(lns. 93-97)
Lear: My wits begin to turn.
Come on, my boy. How dost, my boy? Art cold?
I am cold myself. Where is this straw, my fellow?
The art of our necessities is strange,
That can make vile things precious. Come, your hovel. 1750
Poor fool and knave, I have one part in my heart
That's sorry yet for thee.
Fool: [sings]
He that has and a little tiny wit-
With hey, ho, the wind and the rain-
Must make content with his fortunes fit,
For the rain it raineth every day.
(lns. 1746-1747)
Each one of the previous passages are an example of the characters trusting and coping with fate. In the first passage, Gloucester blames the astronomical fate for his troubling times of his son turning on him. I don't believe that the alignment of the stars affects what occurs in an individual's life. In the second passage, Lear is telling Cordelia to prove her love through words of affection otherwise her fortune will be hurt. I disagree, I think that for most of the time what you do one day doesn't curse you for the rest of your life. I've done some good things and some bad things in my past but I don't feel that those choices have followed me throughout my life and are the reason for how my life is. In the third passage, the fool is saying that you have to make the most of your destiny and accept what ever the future holds. I mostly agree with this. I agree that whatever happens, happens and you need to accept it. I also agree that you need to make the most with what you have which is what every teenager is trying to do these days (YOLO).
Hallelujah, amen! I definitely agree that human beings have a hand in their own fate, and that things are definitely NOT set in the stars. We are faced with so many choices and possibilities that it is hard for me to believe that everything has a predestined outcome. Sometimes things go unplanned or something unexpected happens, and the beautiful thing about being human is the fact that we can have the choice on how we react to it and not just blame the alignment of the planets or curse nature because of it.
DeleteI definitely agree with the fact that humans have control over their actions. I would however like to address the animal part of the prompt. In act 2 scene 4 when Goneril and Regan threaten to take away his guards he refuses. He states that if a humans would be no different than animals if all they needed were the basic necessities of life. He needs his guards not only for service but for what they represent, the power and respect he worked his whole life to achieve. He is saying that without his guards he loses his identity and would be no different than an animal.
DeleteI picked topic #1.
ReplyDeleteI feel like in today’s world everything we do is usually for OUR benefit. While there is kindness and service, people are always looking for a way to get the smartest phone, buy the newest clothes and watch the latest movies. Through the story of King Lear we can see however that Pride and Greed are not simply Twenty First Century traits but rather traits that have existed throughout the ages.
Dividing the kingdom was a good idea in the beginning seeing as Lear hoped to decrease the contention that would come between the three sisters. However by dividing the kingdom before his death the intentions of Goneril and Reagan were revealed. Their love for their father had been professed due to the desire of the kingdom and the riches they held. They eagerly professed their love but after they had received the kingdom, they no longer found the need to respect or care for Lear as apparent by the scene with Goneril’s servant, and the king and his Knights.
When Lear divided his kingdom he not only set the desire for pride and greed in the hearts of his daughters, by asking them to praise and tell of their amount of love, he allowed himself to be carried away in greed. He is an old man and I’m sure he doesn’t fell the love of his daughters. Asking them to proclaim their love was a way of satisfying his pride but also know the truth of their feelings, however fake they were.
I think that all of the sisters were justified in what they said. I don’t believe they were all right but we as human beings can justify anything we do. Cordelia wished to TRULY tell her father how much she loved him. Goneril and Reagan wanted the Kingdom. Each had a purpose in what they said, and while one did not procure expected results they felt justified in what and why they said what they said.
I think there are lots of opportunities to do just as these three sisters did. As teenagers I think we often find ourselves telling our parents something in order to get what we want. Even adults will use the right words to get things to work in their favor. In a world filled with pride and greed we have to be willing to use flattery.
Topic 2
ReplyDeleteEvery parent to child relationship is different, even between my parents and my siblings, but I don't think the generation gap is something that is insurmountable. I'm very close to my parents because they make it clear what they expect of me (my duties), and because I know my limits, they allow me more freedoms. I know I need to get good grades, keep my room clean, help run errands and when I do these things without being asked, it shows my parents how grateful I am for them. When I am honest with them and show them that they can trust me, there is no need for me to sneak around and be rebellious. If my parents were angry with me when I told them who I was with, or the choices I was making, you bet your buns I would sneak out of the house to cause trouble. Because they support me, though, and give their input lovingly, I am more responsive and I feel comfortable telling them everything.
King Lear's relationship with Cordelia is quite the opposite of mine. He doesn't make clear to his daughter that he only wishes to hear how much she loves him. It may seem vain, but it's something every parent wants to hear. When she is too upset to answer him, she seems ungrateful. As soon as she realizes that she has hurt her father, she tries to explain by saying, "since what I well intend, I'll do it before I speak". His pride is still sore from her original "nothing" remark, so he replies cruelly, "better thou hadst not been born than not to have pleased me better". Because of the generation gap, Cordelia doesn't know how to express her love in a way that her father will understand and Lear doesn't realize she is showing it to the best of her ability and because of this, she is nothing more than a disappointment to him. They simply need to communicate better.
I agree that all parents would like to hear their child loves them. However I think that King Lear already knows how Cordelia loves him and his pride is more hurt than anything when she responded to him because it was in front of many people. He did not want to appear weak so he punished her for it severely.
DeleteI think you are right; every relationship between parent and child is not the same. Nobody lives in exactly the same circumstance, and communication really is key here.
DeleteI chose to answer #2
ReplyDeleteI really hate when questions ask "is it impossible to overcome such and such?!!" For heaven's sake, of course not! Anything can be overcome, depending on how a person chooses to deal with it. I agree that generations gaps are sometimes hard to deal with, however, I believe they are no different than any other type of gap with another person be it background, culture, or upbringing. Children are going to be different from their parents, period. This is where the dualities arrive, in which both the child and the parent choose how to deal with the different viewpoints.
Take gratitude/ingratitude, in the play we see Regan and Goneril both being prideful daughters, who gave false words of praise to their father and are eagerly preparing to dethrone him as king. These two sisters chose to show ingratitude to their father and easily manipulates him. Such as in the quote by the fool "May not an ass know when the cart draws the horse?" Meaning that the king is letting himself be commanded by his daughters, instead of the other way around. I don’t know about you, but that seems to be a really bad way to thank your father when he just gave you half his country.
As for the relationship for kindness and cruelty, I’m not sure who was more cruel Cordelia or Regan and Goneril. Most of the time I find myself acting more like Cordelia around my poor mother than Regan and Goneril. However, because of that my relationship with my mother is more based on honesty then on politeness. However, it’s clear that Cordelia’s and her father’s relationship is much different, where lying seems to get you in a better spot than well meaning honesty. Such as when Lear says “How, how, Cordelia? Mend your speech a little, Lest you may mar your fortunes.” Meaning he would rather have her say a pretty lie than speak the truth.
As we can see from King Lear’s relationship with his daughters, balance is key to dealing with generation gaps. Difference with always occur between parent and child, and the way to resolve them is to carefully see both sides of the argument. I think these differences are the things in which some of the strongest bonds can be made. However, it takes time, patience, and love, all of which seem to be lacking for King Lear.
I love the idea that the generation gap is like any other difference with another person. Yes, every relationship is different, but one can overcome the difficulty of any relationship by trying to understand the purposes of the actions of the other person.
DeleteI like how you said that it is possible to overcome anything. I believe that no matter how difficult a challenge is, if you are determined and motivated it can be overcome. Overcoming the generation gap between your parents is a hard challenge, but if you have good communication and respect you can learn a lot from your parents and they can learn a lot from you.
DeleteI agree with this passage. It is well written and thus perfect to agree with I might say. But seriously it is really good. I like how you mentioned that the generation gap really isn't the problem but more of the people it depends on and their attitudes. Very nice.
DeleteI believe that humans do have control over their actions. Although, there are some instances in which humans behave that seem as though we do not; I believe that they are controllable, although it may be a harder task to do so.
ReplyDeleteIn act 1 scene 2, there is a conversation between Gloucester and his illegitimate son Edmund concerning the "letter written by Edgar". Here one sees the opposing views of the two characters concerning cosmic fate.
Gloucester clearly expresses his views when he says, "These late eclipses in the sun and moon portend no good to us. Though the wisdom of nature can reason it thus and thus, yet nature finds itself scourged by the sequent effects. Love cools, friendship falls off, brothers divide, in cities mutinies, in countries discord, in palaces treason, and the bond cracked ’twixt son and father." To me, it does not seem as though he thinks these things only because of his ignorance, but because he is confused and afraid. He doesn't want these things that Edgar wrote to be true, and believing that the result of this was of cosmic influence rather than just plain insubordination relieves some of his anxieties. Yes what was written is bad either way, but I believe that superstition is a way for people to harmlessly relieve their anxieties about things that they feel they can't control. By blaming his son's actions on the stars and planets, he has an explanation that makes it less hurtful to him.
Directly following this moment, Edmund mocks the idea in believing in cosmic fate. He sees it as idiocy, "This is the excellent foppery of the world that when we are sick in fortune—often the surfeit of our own behavior—we make guilty of our disasters the sun, the moon, and the stars, as if we were villains by necessity, fools by heavenly compulsion, knaves, thieves, and treachers by spherical predominance, drunkards, liars, and adulterers by an enforced obedience of planetary influence, and all that we are evil in by a divine thrusting-on." I agree with Edmund on the point that we are not really influenced at all by any sort of "cosmic fate". He sees their perspective as people just blaming their inability to control their emotions or actions on something they have no control over (such as the planets), and from his position as an illegitimate son, he has reason to believe so. He is angry that his misfortune in life is brushed off his parents' shoulders, "An admirable evasion of whoremaster man, to lay his goatish disposition to the charge of a star! My father compounded with my mother under the dragon’s tail and my nativity was under Ursa Major..." He wants people to take accountability for their actions, not to blame them on the cosmos.
While many of us do not blame our words, actions, or procrastination on an assignment as a result of the planets, we are all pretty adept in coming up with other sorts of excuses. We can blame our nastiness on being tired or stressed, our rudeness on a slip of the tongue; sometimes these things aren't even true. While there are times when the excuses we come up with actually explain our actions, the action is usually avoidable regardless, we just need to be better at controlling them. Our actions come from what we are thinking, thus if we change our thinking, we can control our actions. If we are thinking in terms on putting the blame on something/someone else, we will not worry as much about controlling them. By taking responsibility for our actions, we will have less excuses about the results, and hopefully we will be better at achieving the results we want (being kinder people, getting our homework done on time, etc.). Coming back to King Lear, our actions cannot be justified by our excuses, but our excuses may put our minds at ease.
*In response to topic #4
DeleteTopic number 3
ReplyDeleteEvery villain in history was doing what he believed to be right. With that in mind, the only fair answer to the question "is the nature of humanity evil?" can be no.
In the case of King Lear, the king thought he was being fair when he distributed his land to his daughters based on how much they professed to love him. Whether this is wrong or right is completely up to the reader.
Goneril and Regan both believed they were doing the right thing when playing his game to win what they thought they deserved. They also believed what they were doing was right when planning to lessen the power still held by an old man losing his sanity.
Edmund, the basterd son of Gloucester believes that what he is doing is perfectly just when he turns his brother against his father and the reverse. He thinks that he is equally deserving of his father's power and even more so because he was begotten in a moment of passion rather than habit.
Kent, after being banished for speaking against the King returns in disguise, lying to the king and professing a desire to remain with the king to give aid and counsel. This disobedience is not evil in his eyes, just as killing hundreds of thousands of people was not evil in the eyes of Adolf Hitler.
Evil does not exist in the story of King Lear nor does it in our own world, despite the harmful results that occur. People, whether percieved as heroes or villains are simply seeking and often gaining what they believe to be just and correct. Evil, like beauty, is found through the eye of the beholder.
This is a fascinating take on what evil actually is. What one person sees as evil another person can call "normal." However, I will disagree with you on several points. First, not every villain in history was doing what was right. Many times, they thought not about right or wrong at all--because if they had, a conscience would have kicked in.
DeleteSecond, Goneril and Regan were not doing what they believed to be right; if you had asked them *why* they were doing what they were doing, they would have answered "To benefit myself."
So finally, let's consider what human nature is. Human nature is, first and foremost, to provide for the self. This is logical--otherwise a person would not survive.
Is it human nature to consider what is moral, or is that a higher influence, persuading us to ask the hardest question: Why?
Rosi, this has been one of my favorite posts. I completely agree. Although a reader may read the actions of a villain and say that it is morally wrong, They almost always feel that they are justified because of a wrong done to them by others. They are doing what is right in their minds. Although revenge may not always be the best direction, it is not necessarily evil.
DeleteAll of your takes on the matter are really interesting. I like how you say that evil is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with it to a degree. I think, however, like Olivia mentioned, people have consciences. Having a conscience is part of human nature. I like how Olivia points out that some of the characters are doing things merely to benefit themselves. However, that can tie back in to your opinion as one could argue that in certain circumstances, a person may believe that selfish intentions are the right choice.
Delete"Self-knowledge and the pursuit of truth are crucial in developing a good person." This is an interesting statement, in light of two key characters in Shakespeare's King Lear. One character, Cordelia, uses her self knowledge to realize that she must tell the truth; her truth telling costs her a kingdom, but she is able to walk away knowing that she told the truth.
ReplyDeleteContrast this with Edmund. Edmund knows who he is, and knows what he is, but he uses this knowledge of himself to justify lying to get gain.
Allow me to point out that both characters use the same line: "Nothing, my lord." Cordelia's is to be honest, and Edmund's is to bear false witness. I wonder if Shakespeare planned that? (Of course he did!)
So far, Cordelia's truth-telling has ended up benefiting her, in more important ways than power, land, and wealth. She was saved from marrying Burgundy who only wanted her for her dowry, and instead marries France who considers Cordelia a "dowry in herself."
The response asks that I relate this to my life, which I can only too easily do. Yesterday, I was fired. Let me say that again: I, Olivia, was fired. I am feeling remarkably like Cordelia in this moment; I let my pride hold my tongue. Their reason for "letting me go" was a misunderstanding, however, I was hurt that they were willing to get rid of me over something so small. I remembered all the effort and all of the hours I put into my job over the months that I worked there. Perhaps how Cordelia felt, when asked to profess her love to receive her reward after she had already shown it in every possible way! And so, I refused to argue or defend myself.
Self-knowledge comes at a price.
In response to what Scott said, I agree. Many people who are full of knowledge have it go to their head. They feel they know so much they are superior to others because they have a superior expanse of knowledge. So while it is great to be smart, if there is no moderation it can turn sour.
ReplyDeleteI chose question #3. I certainly do not believe that the nature of humans is basically evil. Like it has been said earlier everyone has good and bad inside of them. When we are young we forgive very easily and trust a majority of the people we meet. As we get older we are presented with opportunities to show our true character, in those moments we can choose good or bad. In Act one, Scene one, Cordelia says: "You have begot me, bred me, loved me: I return these duties back as they are right fit," This passage seems convincing of the fact that humans have love between them. A father loves his daughter who in turn loves him. They care for and rear each other out of pure goodness. Loving someone truly and completely is a very selfless thing because it requires sacrifice. If people were innately evil they could never love fully, they would see no reason in working for the happiness of someone else. These kind words spoken from a daughter to a father leads to the belief that people are naturally good because they focusing on mutual service of the other. Later in the scene Cordelia has been revoked of her inheritance and France says, "Love's not love when it is mingled with regards that stand aloof from the entire point." This quote shows that love does not need worldly rewards. Love is a feeling that is pure and a natural instinct. If there are conversations such as these happening in the world there is no way that people can be born truly evil. Being evil is a choice that requires just as much work as being good. Today in this world, there are some who bare children just to toss them to the side. They harm or do not care for their children. Yet, there are others who choose to adopt or foster children in bad situations out of love. As long as the world spins, children will be born and the choice will always be available as to get rid of the child or care for them. Some will choose good and others will choose bad, but fortunately most people will usually be on the side that rings true to one's conscience.
I agree with Jayden. I do not believe that human nature is basically evil, but rather that everyone has the choice to be good or to become evil. In fact, human nature seems to be innately good, as is shown in the love of a parent for a child or a child to a parent. If humans were naturally evil, it would be impossible for them to be able to feel that love and they would have no inclination to care for someone else.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTopic 1
ReplyDeletePride and greed are definitely major causes of conflict, and it can be seen everywhere in every culture. It is evident in King Lear that the initial causes of conflict in the play are both pride and greed. The greed of Lear’s two oldest daughters, Goneril and Regan, lead them to use flattery to gain their inheritances from their father and Lear’s pride when Cordelia refuses to pretend to love her father more than anything, but as a child should love a father, is hurt and he makes the rash decision to divide the kingdom between only Goneril and Regan, leaving Cordelia without an inheritance or a family. Lear wishes to divide his kingdom before his death to avoid conflict over the division of the kingdom and his daughters, especially the oldest two, are eager to receive their inheritances. He also hopes that his daughters will take care of him in his old age. Lear demands that his daughters tell him how much they love him before he grants them their portion of the kingdom. He does this because he is a prideful man and wants to believe that his daughters love him more than anything and that he is suitably conferring his kingdom upon them. From this we see who truly loves their father the most, and it is neither Goneril nor Regan, though they both profess their love to be too great to be expressed. Goneril herself expresses her love for her father as, “A love that makes breath poor and speech unable. Beyond all manner of so much I love you.” It is, in fact, Cordelia who loves Lear the most, although she is the most inept at expressing it. She says, “Unhappy that I am, I cannot heave my heart into my mouth,” and by this she means that she unlike her sisters, is not able to pretend to love that she does not feel. Instead she tells her father her true feelings, that she loves him as a child should and shows him her love through her obedience and taking care of him. I believe that all three are somewhat justified in their reactions to their fathers request. It is a ridiculous request and therefore does not deserve a sincere answer. However, because he is their father, Lear does deserve the honesty of his children, but considering his reaction to Cordelia’s lack of flattery, Goneril and Regan cannot be blamed for answering the way that they did to avoid being denied any inheritance and being disowned by their own father. Situations like this can be seen all throughout history. Many times ancient monarchs have denied their own kin power because they felt them to be unworthy of it.
Prompt #1
ReplyDeletePride and greed are huge problems in the world today and have always been since the beginning of time. Countries go to war over it, many lose friends from it and families break apart because of it. Ultimately pride and greed will bring misery and grief. The pride and greed displayed in the first two acts foreshadows that the play will not have a happy ending.
King Lear chose to divide his kingdom into three parts to share between his three beloved daughters. All he wanted his daughters to do was publicly praise, adore, and love him and he would give them their share of his kingdom. This shows how the king is extremely prideful, because rather than caring about what his daughters truly felt for him he became blinded by the flattery of his two eldest daughters.
King Lear called on each of his daughters for their turn to praise and flatter their father. The two oldest daughters had a way with words that pleased their king but what they said was completely insincere. They said what they did solely in the purpose of their own gain. When King Lear called upon his youngest daughter Cordelia, he expected more praise and honoring. The response he received shocked him. Cordelia did not want to reply, she knew that her father understood the way she felt about him and did not understand the need for further flattery. The king threatened her "How, how, Cordelia! mend your speech a little, Lest it may mar your fortunes." (line 96-97) yet Cordelia was too prideful to give the king just what he wanted to hear.
All the sisters are justified in their actions. Cordelia simply wanted to be true. Both the older sisters did not want to lose their third of the kingdom (however greedy it may be). Based on the kings reaction to Cordelia the two older sisters were only looking out for their best interest. "I loved her most, and thought to set my rest On her kind nursery." (line 27-28) he so easily cast away his most beloved daughter, even when he had thought she would be the one to take care of him because his pride had been wounded.
It is understandable that King Lear's pride is hurt but his reaction is more dramatic than expected from a father to a daughter in the world today.
I’m writing about question 4, do humans have any control over their actions?
ReplyDeleteMany of the people in King Lear have the idea that humans have no power to choose what actions they commit. This is blamed on the fact that they are the same as animals, or that their existence is dictated by fate. King Lear states “Come not between the dragon and his wrath” making his actions seem unavoidable. The idea that revenge is in his very nature makes it seem as if he is not responsible for the damage it will cause. King Lear also states “Human nature would be no different from that of animals if humans never needed more than the fundamental necessities of life.” This statement is closer to the truth, it says there is a difference between humans and animals, but it is only their desire for more than the necessities.
This idea is similar to a deity dictating exactly what every action will be, or fate. The idea of fate is ridiculous, to say that no matter how hard you try to alter your fate you are going to make the same decision. A person will have to live through their fate, they have to make those decisions, and even if it were somehow predetermined they would be the object that is physically completing the task. It would suffer all pains associated with the decision or all the rewards. This would basically mean that a person was predetermined to be happy or miserable, that it didn’t matter what kind of actions, thoughts or feelings they had or wished for they just got what they got.
Personally I believe we are far from animals, we can think and we do not act solely on instinct. We have the ability to learn and reason and plan ahead, not just react blindly to whatever situation is currently at hand. I also believe that even if the whole of human existence was predetermined, it wouldn’t matter because we don’t know what fate is going to have us do. We will still make the decisions and live with the consequences. We are still responsible for whatever actions we commit and we shouldn’t blame it on the fact that we are like animals or that god made us do it.
I’m answering prompt #1
ReplyDeletePride and greed are two major causes of conflict. Nearly all wars start with one kingdom or ruler’s greed for more land, or to be proud he controls the most land. Pride is the reason people don’t apologize. Greed is why people steal. The list goes on and on and it all leads to conflict.
King Lear wishes to divide his kingdom. Instead of looking at the character of his three daughters he simply requires them to express how much they each love him. Lear is old, has no wife, and his daughters are all grown, two of them are married. He could possibly be feeling lonely, and this is why he wants to be reassured that his family loves him. This is his pride. He basically wants his daughters to build up his ego and pride. This causes conflict with his third daughter when she does not wish to do this.
The greed in the first two sisters is evident in their reaction. Goneril states, “A love that makes breath poor, and speech unable; Beyond all manner of so much I love you.’’ Goneril says she loves her father so much her speech is unable to adequately tell how deep her love goes. Not to be out down, and wanting more land than Goneril, Regan states, “I find she names my very deed of love; Only she comes too short: that I profess Myself an enemy to all other joys...” Here Regan says that her sister says exactly what she herself would like to say, but she loves him more. Regan says Goneril stops to short with her love, and this is where Regan picks up. Finally it is Cordelia’s turn to speak, “Nothing, my lord” she states. In her asides the audience knows Cordelia is worried about expressing her love to her father. She thinks that surely her “love is more richer than her tongue.” She hopes she won’t have to express to her father how much she loves him because he should already know this. Yet the two elder sisters’ greediness make Cordelia look like she loves her father less. This damages the kings pride, and this is why he takes away Cordelia’s portion of land.
I do not think any of the sisters are justified in their actions. The two elder sisters act out of greed instead of love, while Cordelia should not have had a problem expressing how much she loves her father. Even if her father is acting out of selfish pride. Cordelia’s words could have been true words spoken about her father instead of her sisters trying to build him up for their own purposes.
People are still greedy and proud even today. In law suites, divorce cases, custody battles, and in relationships people choose to let pride and greed rule their judgment. This causes many types of conflict.
I chose to answer prompt #4
ReplyDeleteDo humans have control over their actions? Of course we do. We control how we talk to people, how we treat people, how much effort we put into things and our attitudes towards situations. It is a common thought that we can not control what happens in our lives. That is true, but only to a certain extent. We control, more than anything, the way we react. We can choose to be proactive or reactive. If we choose to be proactive we are choosing to make the best of a situation and be productive. If we choose to be reactive we are choosing to find fault in what is happening and place blame on anyone or anything but ourselves. We can control how we act.
I do not believe that we humans are controlled by a cosmic fate. We all have some control. We all are individuals and we all have agency. Like I said above, we choose to be proactive or active. If we were controlled by a cosmic fate, we would not have that option. In my opinion, Edmond is speaking the absolute truth when he says,
"This is the excellent foppery of the world, that,
when we are sick in fortune,--often the surfeit
of our own behavior,--we make guilty of our
disasters the sun, the moon, and the stars: as
if we were villains by necessity; fools by
heavenly compulsion; knaves, thieves, and
treachers, by spherical predominance; drunkards,
liars, and adulterers, by an enforced obedience of
planetary influence; and all that we are evil in,
by a divine thrusting on: an admirable evasion
of whoremaster man, to lay his goatish
disposition to the charge of a star!"
The human race often refers to events happening because of fate, implying that the human race has no choice but to let "fate takes its own course".
Are we animals? Maybe not literally, but sometimes our actions can be very similar to how an animal would act. Throughout the whole play(not just the first acts) there are multiple references that specific characters are like specific animals. In Act 2, King Lear describes to his second daughter how her elder sister is acting like an animal, "‘Thy sister’s naught. O, Regan, she hath tied / Sharp -toothed unkindness, like a vulture, here." King Lear is relating his daughter to a vulture. He is saying that his daughter was rude and disrespectful to him while he was at her home. A vulture has no boundaries once it has found its prey. Vultures in a way, show no mercy I think that is while Regan is compared to one. She purposely makes her father upset and is very rude to him. In our world today, there are many vultures that can pick at us with unkindness. Later in the play, both of the older sisters are referred to as "Tigers, not daughters," by Lord Albany, the husband of the second daughter. They are being relate to tigers because tigers each other animals. They satisfy their hunger at the expense of others. This also happens in our world today. The stereotypical bully is often described as someone who feel better about themselves when they bring others down. This can be related to tigers as well. Although we may not be literal animals, we can sometimes act as ignorant and reactive as animals.
Prompt #1
ReplyDeleteFrom the beginning of time pride and greed have caused innumerable conflicts throughout the world. We see these two motifs in the story of Cain and Able as well as modern days with wars and even Celebrities.
King Lear shows his selfish greed in Act 1 scene 1 when he asks for his daughters to profess their love to receive a share in the kingdom. Goneril and Regan comply with his request by saying exactly what he wants to hear. Goneril says Sir, I love you more than words can wield the matter" (Act 1 scene 1). Cordelia on the other hand has proven her love to her father her whole life because of this, King Lear may have had higher expectations for her response which took him by surprise when she responded “I love your majesty according to my bond; no more nor less.” (Act 1 Scene 1). He interprets this as ungrateful and offensive.
Each sister Acts according to what they want in return. Cordelia wanted her father to see her genuine love through her past actions, whereas the eldest sisters were willing to suck up to their father even if their words were not what they truly felt. Their true intentions are revealed through later scenes.
We see a variation to these actions in a weekly basis for almost every teenager. If one wants to have special privileges like driving the luxury car to a dance or going out for the third night in a row teens will do whatever it takes to achieve this. It usually consists of telling their parents what they want to hear, and sometimes proving through their actions that they are responsible and entitled to such requests. We may not label these actions as prideful or greedy, but they do however reflect those of the characters in King Lear.
I agree with Shellbe in the fact that many people of the past and present rely on their "silver tongue" to get them what they want. There are people like Cordelia that show through their actions rather than words. Saying something is one thing and doing it is another.
DeletePrompt #5
Self-knowledge and truth is something vital to every being. Without it there would be no confidence or self-esteem. To know the truth helps base your thoughts and actions of what you know, not what you think. When criticized those that have self-knowledge and truth aren't ashamed as those that are hearing it for the first time. One example of this is the Earl of Kent. If he did not have self-knowledge he wouldn't have spoke up against the King, standing up for Cordelia,
"Thy youngest daughter does not love thee least;
Nor are those empty-hearted whose low sound
Reverbs no hollowness."
He tried to show the King that Cordelia had proven here love already.
Another example is King Lear when the fool calls the King a fool himself. The fool comes and tells the King he is a fool for giving away his power and instead of banishing him, the King listens to what he has to say in order to gain self-knowledge and truth,
"That lord that counsell'd thee
To give away thy land,
Come place him here by me,
Do thou for him stand:
The sweet and bitter fool..."
King Lear gains the knowledge of the foolish act of giving away his land and ultimately his power. This happens on a regular basis for me. With sports my coaches are constantly critiquing me, and without listening to their advice I would never get better. Sometimes the truth hurts, but it is essential to learn more about yourself.
I will be responding to question number 1. Are pride and greed major problems in the world? I personally believe that this question is multifaceted and must be acknowledged in multiple perspectives to truly reach a consensus. First it must be understood that every man that has ever lived has been affected by an aspect of prideful thinking. Because we are all aware of our surroundings as well as self aware, our image gets put into question with the actions we partake in affecting the outside world. Taking this into account it only makes sense that each person is concerned with the reception of their individual actions. That being said it would make sense that King Lear questions his three daughters on their love for him. "Which of you shall we say doth love us most
ReplyDeleteThat we our largest bounty may extend
Where nature doth with merit challenge?" The question posed by king Lear already presents his fault in pride. It is Lear's insecurity that leads him into pridefulness because he needs the verbal reassurance of love by his daughters. Cordelia's response "I love your majesty
According to my bond, no more nor less." can also be taken as an act of pride because Cordelia does not see her father's game as one that is worthy of her participation. It is pride that opens up Shakespeare's King Lear and begins a generational conflict for land and the measurement of love.
You could also argue that it is not pride that motivates Cordelia's less fanciful response, but her desire to be honest and her hate for playing "games", like her sisters are. Also yeah, Lear has some serious pride going on.
DeleteI chose to answer Topic #4
ReplyDeleteHumans are the creators of their own fate. They have the privilege of being able to know the difference between right and wrong and make choices which can lead to their consequences. This certainly makes humans above animals. Yes, humans of course have animal instincts but they have the power to overcome those instincts and make the best choice that benefits their soul, rather than feeds the animal in them.
"Nuncle Lear, nuncle Lear, tarry and take the fool with thee.
A fox when one has caught her
And such a daughter
Should sure to the slaughter,
If my cap would buy a halter.
So the fool follows after."
(1.4, 312-319)
Goneril reveals her true self to her father, and King Lear compares her to a fox, which is sly and quick. Goneril tricked her father into thinking she was a loving and devoted daughter, but on the inside she was cruel.
" Belovèd Regan,
Thy sister’s naught. O Regan, she hath tied
Sharp-toothed unkindness, like a vulture, here.
(indicates his heart)
I can scarce speak to thee. Thou'lt not believe
With how depraved a quality— O Regan!"
(2.4, 124-128)
King Lear chastises Regan’s actions by comparing her to a “sharp-tooth’d vulture”. Vultures eat the carcasses of dead animals, so in a way he is comparing his heart to a carcass which Regan unmercifully eats. His disappointment in his daughter leads him to compare his daughter to a vulture, which is symbolic of animal instincts. Regan is more at fault than any vulture however, because she knows better, yet continues to follow the natural evil inside of her.
"(rising) Never, Regan.
She hath abated me of half my train,
Looked black upon me, struck me with her tongue,
Most serpentlike, upon the very heart.
All the stored vengeances of heaven fall
On her ingrateful top! Strike her young bones,
You taking airs, with lameness!"
(2.4, 152-158)
King Lear is so mad at this point that he compares Regan to a serpent, which throughout time has been heavily symbolic of the devil. She “struck him with her tongue”, meaning she is poisonous to him through her words. You can relate this to the serpent tempting Eve in the Garden of Eden. When Regan tells the King she loves him dearly in Act 1, it sounds so sweet to him, as it does to Eve in the Garden. But later the King and Eve both discover the true nature of the serpent, and cry out in despair.
In each of these examples, King Lear finds his daughter’s betrayals at fault to the cruel natural instincts of man, which can be compared to the instincts of animals. If animals’ actions were in the human world we would consider them cruel, but because they are animals and have no knowledge of right and wrong we accept their behavior, but it is unacceptable for a human to behave such a way.
I chose question 3.
ReplyDeleteThe nature of humanity is basically evil. Every single human on the face of the earth desires something above all else. And wether that be a good or a bad thing, we humans will do whatever it takes to get it. Humans go to extreme measures to get what they want. It could be getting a spouse, getting money, or power, whatever. The point is, all humans only care about are themselves, naturally.
Humans natuarl instinct is to survive. Humans have to learn to care for others. They best learn how to do this in a family setting, where you can safely learn to help each other and do things for your family. Those that dont grow up in a decent envirement tend to lack the care for others feelings and safety. Because they were never taught to do otherwise. Their natural instinct is to only care about themselves and their own goals.
An example of this is Edmund. although his father loved him, through the examples of dishonesty and lust for power, Edmund learned first hand not to care about others, and to only care about what he wants. Time and time again we see people act for only themselves, not caring if they are hurting others. This is humanitys natural actions. The only thing that can save the people in the play is love. Love is the greatest power that fights humanities natural instincts. Through love, good actions are preformed. Actions that dont always help the person acting them, but helps someone they love. It is a powerful force that overcomes anything, including humans want for power and greed.
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ReplyDeleteI'm choosing topic #3.
ReplyDeleteI think that the nature of humanity is purely evil, this can be seen all around us in the world wherever you look. You might see people being kind and nice, but if they could be cruel and evil without consequence, they would do it in a heartbeat. A good example of this in the play is Edmund and his plotting to usurp his father and brother. Even though Gloucester loves his son, Edmund still does not feel bad about going against his fathers wishes in order to acquire his estate. I think the world is really like this as we see it all the time. There have been many cases where after someone dies, family members will turn against each other to dispute the will in order to gain more than the others.
The second example of immorality in the play comes from King Lear's banishment of one of his most loyal noblemen. Even though the Earl of Kent has served King Lear faithfully for many years, the king banishes him simply because he can, not for any logical reason. This form of pride can be seen everywhere in the real world as it embodies all human beings. Everybody wants to be right and nobody wants to be wrong, and as a result, there are more and more conflicts.
The third example of pure evil in humans comes from Gonerils and Reagans attitude towards their father. Though they both claim to love him very much, it is obvious that they are only pretending to do so in order to acquire their individual half of the kingdom. They have no true care for their fathers wishes. The same father who has loved and cared for them since they were born. Finally we can see this in the real world on both ends of the spectrum. All over the world there are children and parents alike who are treated worse than they should be. There are many cases of parents being nothing but kind to their children only to receive hate back as well as parents being cruel to their children for no logical reason. So in the end, it is easy to see how humans nature is evil, the modern world today is ran by greed and though many people may claim to be good, they are really just repressing their evil urges.
I would argue that people are basically not evil as many perform actions of kindness without any reward or recognition.
DeleteI have to agree with Sawyer. Id say otherwise if this world was run by god but clearly it isn't. The nature of humanity is basically evil. According to what I believe this all goes back to Adam and Eve , due to their mistakes we inherited imperfection and now were battling against ourselves to do whats right . Its like rowing upstream against the current. Nevertheless, we are born with a conscience but we decide if we want to feed it or ignore it. Thats where free will comes in and we decide what side were leaning more towards to. We live in a tainted environment, a man is as good or as evil as he chooses to be.
DeleteIn King Lears play we see various examples of the characters were they lack morality.
A good example is King Lear's own son Edmund he deceives everyone, writing a letter in his brothers name saying he wants to kill his father, the king. Gloucester - You know the character to be your brothers? Edmund- If the matter were good, my lord, I durst swear. Edmunds jealousy made him turn against his own blood. We also see how the Duke of Burgundy refuses to marry Cordelia once she loses her inheritance, his intentions from the very start were to marry her for the land she was going to inherit, without a doubt his greed had gotten the best of him. I think the world is really like this, things are happening all around us, some so gruesome we arent able to wrap our head around them. I think theres always a chance for a redemption, no matter what you do, I believe theres someone out there that knows you better than yourself. I don't believe we just came here to battle against ourselves and die, I think our redemption is better than we think… that little thing that didn't escape the “pandora box” right? That little thing called hope.
In response to prompt #1
ReplyDeletePride and greed are the major causes of conflicts. Nazi Germany believed they were the best people in the world and that they should dominate others leading to conflict. Lear wanted his daughters to scramble for his attention and claim they loved him most. He wanted to feel good about his parenting. He also wanted to remind the daughter who the gift was coming from to help ensure that they will care for him now that he is retiring. The two elder sisters play along with Lear they are will to play whatever little games he wants them to play for their inheritance. Also, They are afraid of their father’s wrath and believe him to very rash.
GONERIL
“The best and soundest of his time hath been but
rash; then must we look to receive from his age,
not alone the imperfections of long-engraffed
condition, but therewithal the unruly waywardness
that infirm and choleric years bring with them.”
REGAN
“Such unconstant starts are we like to have from
him as this of Kent's banishment.”
They are clearly justified in their actions.
Cordelia claims to be a not very good liar like her sisters.
CORDELIA
“... If for I want that glib and oily art,
To speak and purpose not ...”
She believes that lying to one's parents is totally wrong and is justified for her actions as well.
Pride and greed are major causes of conflict in the world. Everyone wants some sort of prestige, and most people are never content with what they have. Lear decides to divide his kingdom, and because he is so prideful, he forces his daughters to profess their love for him in order to gain the most from it. He tells them, ““Which of you shall we say doth love us most? That we our largest bounty may extend” (Act 1 Scene 1). His older daughters both have more greed than pride. They want their share of the power of the kingdom and are willing to grovel for it. But Lear’s youngest daughter is more like her father; she stubbornly (and pridefully) refuses to play his silly little game. When asked how she could prove she loved her father more than her sisters, she replied with “Nothing, my lord” (Act 1 Scene 1). This in turn makes the prideful king angry, so he banishes her and the greedy sisters are left with the kingdom.
ReplyDeleteI chose topic #3
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that humanity is basically evil. I believe that today's inventions are evil, and that is what strays people towards wrong doings. That does not mean the person themselves is evil. There are people who do wrong things, like in King Lear, both Regan and Goneril let their greed get the best of them when they were both rewarded with a piece of land and wealth.
"Of all these bounds, even from this line to this, With shadowy forests and with champains rich'd." line 65.
The idea and the riches that come from money cloud people's mind into believing that is a higher purpose in life. Things like money, technology, belongings, and land can change a person. If the world today didn't have all of these things, I truly believe we would be a kinder and more content species. The idea of obtaining wealth is strong throughout the world and throughout King Lear. When the king divided up the kingdom, the two daughters took this up as an opportunity to just keep wanting more and more.
"Hear me, my lord; What need you five and twenty, " line 286.
Humanity can be kind and has been before, but with the worlds obsessions with wealthy and objects makes humanity turn away from what could be important in today's world.
"AI am responding to question #1.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jacob's post that pride and greed are major causes of conflict. I also feel that ego is something that can be problematic In many intances. I think King Lear felt the need to have his ego boosted as a father and that is what motivated him to question his daughters before he divided his kingdom. Along with Jacob, I agree that Cordilia was justified in how she responded but I feel that she responded this way because she didn't want to participate in the silly games of flattery.
In society today I see a much greater value put on what people say rather than what people do. People today say what King Lear said to his daughters;
"Which of your shall we say doth love us most?
That we our largest brunty may extend?"
People are rewarded for flattery.
And when Cordilia does not want to respond King Lear says;
"How ,how Cordilia! Mend your speech a little, lest it may mar your fortunes."
Cordilia think that her Father should KNOW that she loves him most by her actions. In today's life I think we should all prove our love and respect for those dear to us through our actions, and not have to prove it through silly words of flattery.
A quote that I like says "a person shouldn't Have to tell you they love you in order for your to know; you can tell by their actions."
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ReplyDeleteI'll be answering prompt #3: Is the nature of humanity basically evil? In my opinion, no. At least not on purpose. Think about how much we eat, how much we burn, how much we destroy in the name of furthering man kind's position in life. If animals were capable of the same thought and sentience, would they not consider us evil? We destroy their homes and consume their food faster then it can grow back. But do we do this because we're evil? I believe that humans are not evil, but instead self-promoting before benevolent. Often times in a story, a person who's considered "evil" is simply working for their own self betterment.They're motivated in some way, to move themselves forward, be it social status, political power, money, or even for purely petty entertainment. Their desire for this is so strong people push away friends or family to achieve their perceived "success". To them it isn't evil in the slightest. Which is perfectly exemplified when, after Kent is placed in the stocks, laughs and extends Kent's sentence purely because she can saying: "Till noon!? till night, my lord; and all night too." Or Regan, knowing the king is in a rage and that a storm is approaching, commands Gloucester to grant the king no entry. "My lord, entreat him by no means to stay."
ReplyDeleteIn response to topic #4 I say simply that Shakespeare hit our animalistic tendencies right on the nose. King Lear is fraught with examples of insanity, passion, and snap decisions. “They flattered me like a dog; and told me I had white hairs in my beard ere the black ones were there. To say 'ay' and 'no' to every thing that I said!--'Ay' and 'no' too was no good divinity.” Whilst the lamentation of the good king himself is so validated by the way his daughters treat him, it is not grounds for empathy. Indeed, I have to agree. Human beings are often dictated by their internal animal. The continual ranting of King Lear at his daughters, the quick way he is to anger, and his predation complex show this perfectly. He believes he is “hunted” by his daughters. The fool states this imaginative fear plainly. “The hedge-sparrow fed the cuckoo so long, that it had its head bit off by it’s young.” This couldn’t be more true than it is of Regan and Gonoreil. The two daughters were cared for by the king, and eventually bit off his head by diminishing his importance in lieu of his fortune and land. I for one believe in God. I believe in destiny, but not fate. I believe in both agency and predetermination. Yet I have found that amongst all deity or faith is the simple connection of humanness. In essence, we are animals. As human beings we pretend to have harnessed our abilities to think and reason, but so often we give in to the snap temptation of the animal world. Indeed, Edmund put it perfectly. “Now, gods, stand up for bastards!”
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI absolutely agree Jessika. Shakespear brings out his character's inner-animal beautifully with his clever similes and metaphors. We are all animals longing to claim that we have a superior dominance of our behavior than the average dog. As humans we certainly have progressed in intelligence and skill but we have in no way forsaken our animalistic nature that always surfaces in moment of passion, fright, or greed.
DeleteResponding to prompt four:
ReplyDeleteIn a way we do have animalistic tendencies. However, we are above animals in the fact that we also have knowledge or right and wrong, and we definitely are able to choose between the two. We don't get to pick what challenges we are faced with, but we always have a choice, even if the choice is a hard one to make. There are plenty of instances where there is animal imagery used when discussing morality, which shows their opinions that humans are no better than animals.
“Beyond yond simpering dame, whose face between her forks presages snow, that minces virtue and does shake the head to hear of pleasure's name; the fitchew nor the soiled horse goes to't with a more riotous appetite. Down from the waist they're centaurs, though women all above”
Another view is that there is some sort of cosmic fate that controls us. Rather than a deity, Edmund mentions nature in his soliloquy, as if it is the force he believes controls us.
"Thou, Nature, art my goddess; to thy law My services are bound."
Although I don't believe he believes in a god, Albany refers to "heavens" as a cosmic force:
"If that the heavens do not their visible spirits..."
I can't really say that I agree with any of these views. I do believe in a heaven, and I believe in a deity that is a cosmic force, but our actions are not controlled; they are our own. We have natural tendencies that could be referred to as animalistic (in the bible in refers to it as "the natural man"), but we always have a choice.
In response to prompt #1:
ReplyDeleteI believe that all sin and corruption are somehow traced back to pride, greed, or both. The fear of damaging one's own self-regard and the desire to benefit yourself can drive any man to do practically anything.
Lear is an old and insecure king. He feels that his worth is measured by the extravagant flatteries spoken by his daughters be they true or untrue.
The two eldest daughters speak of him with incomparable love and admiration in hopes to receive a greater share of inheritance while Cordelia speaks quite bluntly that her love is that which is "...According to my (her) bond, no more nor less." . The two untrue sisters are not justified in their false affection for their father because they were fundamentally lying to increase their inheritance. Cordelia's actions, though they may have been rash, are justifiable. She, who loved her father dearly, bore no falsehoods to benefit herself. She truthfully spoke her feelings to her father and was punished grievously for them.
While each daughter's decision positively or negatively affected them immediately, the more long-lasting consequences will eventually come to pass as Cordelia predicts "Time shall unfold what plighted cunning hides,
Who covers faults at last with shame derides.
Well may you prosper".
In response to prompt #1
ReplyDeletePride and greed are the major reasons for war and conflict throughout the world, however, you wouldn't be human if you were completely without pride or greed.
King Lear bases his hole existence on the flattery and love of others. Without it, he believes he would be nothing. His daughters, knowing this, shower him with "love" in order to get inheritance "...Sir, I love you more than words can wield the matter, Dearer than eyesight, space, and liberty,
Beyond what can be valued, rich or rare, no less than life, with grace, health, beauty, honor." Goneril and Raegan are not justified in their speeches because they portrayed false affections in order to get more land; Cordelia, on the other hand, spoke of her true feelings.
"Unhappy that I am, I cannot heave my heart into my mouth: I love your majesty according to my bond; nor more nor less." She spoke in all honesty, with no greedy intentions. Her words were immediately followed with a consequence.
The pertains greatly to the world today; wars are often caused because of pride, and even more because of greed. Even small fights in a family are more often than not caused by pride and greed. You wouldn't be human if you were completely without pride or greed.
I Am responding to topic # 3.
ReplyDeleteIs the nature of humanity evil? In a way I believe it is. By this I mean the human instinct. The number one Instinct humans have is the instinct to survive. Who do people worry about the most? Numero uno or in English themselves. People usually put themselves first what will make them better off or make their lives easier or what makes them happy. Even if it involves hurting others or it means them being evil. In Edmunds rant. Which happens in the second scene of act one. Edmund is already agreeing that humans are naturally evil and is stating that he is going to do an evil action because of nature and instinct. “Who, in the lusty stealth of nature, take more composition and fierce quality than doth…well then Legitimate Edgar, I must have your land.” from his ranting you can infer he is going off of instinct and wants what Edgar has for himself.
In the first scene at the very end the two sisters speak of how they feel it would be better off if there father would pass away sooner than later. “Pray you, let's hit together: if our father carry authority with such dispositions as he bears, this last surrender of his will but offend us.” In this conversation it seems the sisters wouldn’t mind if there father would die soon. They want their inheritance and feel they would be better off with the kingdom than their father at his old age. To wish for anyone’s death seems evil to me, and I feel the sisters intentions are evil.
In todays society I feel as though most people think of themselves first more often than. Maybe not always with evil intentions. But I think this leads to evil intentions and a evil nature. It seems most people are worried about what's going to happen to them and not the consequences and how they can harm and affect people. leading to even more evil tendencies and even planning harming other people.
Hayden Matthews
DeleteI agree with Daniel and his response to this question. Most people in this world naturally tend to lean toward more bad and selfish reactions instead of the good. Daniel gives a good example with the instinct to survive. One specific example that comes to mind is when you are being held under the water against your will. When you're in that position you do anything it takes to get oxygen back into your lungs, even if it means injuring or killing someone to do it. It doesn't matter who it is, it could be your sweet little grandma and you're still going to fight her to satisfy your need.